Originally Posted by entropy

PvE is boring as hell.

Originally Posted by Caleb the pontiff

This update creates chaos in normal fight situations. In FoW, the creatures run around randomly after being attacked, and no longer aggro anything like they did previously.

Originally Posted by Jczech

I figured this would have been posted already, but apparantly I was wrong. If it has and I've missed it, let me know.

So, Gaile was in Lion's Arch international district 1 on Friday, before they released the second patch to fix bugs. She had a bit to say on the latest hot topic (though I didn't get as many screenshots as I would have liked, I assumed someone else would, plus I left after she started repeating things for those who found her later) If anyone has a more complete record of what she said, it would be appreciated. That being said, here's my small collection of compiled text...
So what does this mean? The AI improvements are comming. For those who think things are hard now, get out now! It's also apparant they are not against honest farming (I remember it was mentioned somewhere), but rather against solo farming. If they could program it now, the AI would make PvE just as hard as PvP. It also seems like the economy as people know it is probably going to change as well.

So, thoughts on where the game is headed?

Originally Posted by Aeon_Xin

Is that a GM?
I've not seen green type very often, just guild announcements when I log in.
I personally don't agree with alot he says, but that's neither here nor there.
I would like him to be on this forum though....

Originally Posted by Crotalus

She is ArenaNet's Community Relations Manager. She is the closest you will get to the developers of Guild Wars.

Originally Posted by Sagius Truthbarron

I notice however that the job of Fire "nukes" in PvE is now to change the direction of the enemy. Really, I think this AI will be changed again; it's too unbalanced and leaves alot of room for exploitation.

It seems that with 2 fire elementalists, or 2 ranger spikers, or even with 2 smiting monks, you could keep the enemy perpetually moving just with them. All you would really need to do then is add 6 warriors with sprint You wouldn't need any healers, everything would be afraid of you ^^

They'll probably improve the AI, but untill then, why not take advantage of it?

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Well, I disagree, and personally I think you've just disqualified yourself from further complaining.
I haven't been to FoW, but I don't recognize that from Grenths or from the Shiverpeaks or from the Desert. They run, and occasionally one gets confused after running into an object (e.g. a wall) and just stands around, but most of the time the mobs get back to fighting. But, like I said, I haven't been to FoW.
If, however, you by chaos mean that it's no longer possible to send forward a warrior, let him aggro, then bomb the area around the warrior in complete safety, then yes, that's true - the mobs will run around, and usually target casters now. The AI is still weak, but IMO the earlier behavior was outright dumb, and the tactic of drawing & holding aggro with a warrior was basically exploiting poor AI.

What about you other PvE'ers (ie not you farmers, and not you people who hate PvE)? Why don't you like the patch? I'm genuinely curious, because personally I find the fights much more hectic and exciting now. And harder too, for that matter.

Originally Posted by entropy

How have I disqulified myself from complaining. I paid my $50 for this game as did other people. I already explained why I do it. Just read them for once. By chaos I mean the "bugs". If anet is going to release a "patch" that fixes something then it should "fix" it and not create a need for more "patches". Exploiting poor ai? So were we supposed to let the ele aggro them and then make sure we all got targeted so we could have so more "fun"?

Originally Posted by entropy

How have I disqulified myself from complaining.

Originally Posted by entropy

PvE is boring as hell. They made it so that the quickest way to unlock skills was by PvE because faction still takes a while to learn. PvE is not fun because the storyline is boring, there are no surprises, and that its just boring after beating the game. I bought this game for PvP

Originally Posted by Gaile

Hey, there.

First of all, let's clear something up: Defensive? Moi? Nah. If I was defensive I would have spent today hiding under my desk. I'd rather head into LA and talk to the players. I know I saw some of you there; thanks for stopping by. It was a good chat, even if the window scrolled so quickly I couldn't keep up. (Sorry!) Yes, there were a number of upset people. I think a lot of us can remember the same sort of reaction in other titles with their “Patch Days.” But the difference is, we understand and we are listening. And we'll be the first to admit that in addition to changing the game in ways that you may not have expected, we changed the game in ways that we didn't expect either, with adding a few bugs.

Can't remember all I said, but here in greater detail is what I'd like to say now:

Guild Wars has had a bit of a disconnect between the two forms of gameplay: PvP and PvE. What works beautifully in PvP may not work well in PvE, and vice versa. In part, that is ok, but it has also been not ok, because there should be a form of seamlessness between the two gameplay choices, so that what you use in one is also useful in the other. Also, there were problems with the monster and henchman AI. So, in order to bring the game back to more of a shared-experience feeling, rather than a feeling of having two entirely separate and different games, we undertook the first of a few changes: We improved the monster and henchman AI. Henchmen are more intelligent and will do things that you need them to do to get the job done. In other words, they will be more like human players. Likewise, monsters will be given a swift kick in the behi... excuse me.. will be given an similar increase in intelligence, too. Where before they stood stupidly by as Fire Storm rained death and destruction upon them, now, they might actually make a defensive move and, you know, get out of the spell effect!

For after all, monsters shouldn't be stupid. While they may never match a human player in intelligence, they should be clever and canny and crafty in figuring out how to win. If you've ever played with a kitten, you know that animals are not stupid. They assess their opponent -- even if it's just a catnip mouse. They weigh when to scratch or bite, when to pounce, and if you suddenly make ferocious noices that makes the kitten sense peril, the kitten even knows when to back away and reappraise the situation. Animals have a sense of self-preservation equal to or greater than that of humans.

The improvement to the AI will help make the monsters more "realistic," I guess you could say. It will make them more worthy opponents. Some players don't like that. They prefer the "play with one hand, eat a pizza with the other, while watching TV and talking on the phone." Or they prefer being able to solo the Underworld without breaking a sweat. And come on, guys, no one should be soloing the Underworld! It makes no sense at all, and we know it and we accept full responsibility for the fact that it was possible when it never should have been. Things were imbalanced. We've made a move towards putting them back into balance and giving greater valuation to foes of all kinds: Undead, White Mantle, Charr, and all. As monsters improve in intelligence, it allows us to improve skills so that skills that were never used in PvP will be more viable against both players and monsters. It allows us to make skills that were once used exclusively in PvP more appropriate for PvE as well.

A substantial number of people have been testing these changes for several weeks. But none of us really caught the fact that some of what we were doing wasn't quite right, and that some was, in fact, quite broken. Monster run-away was a selected, intentional mechanic. However, having them run away in a Dance Macabre, "like chickens with their heads cut off," wasn't on the To Do List. We made the change purposely because the feedback we got was that monsters were too stupid -- we knew that was true. But the change options were (1) have monsters run out of the AOE and stand on the edge in order to attack again, or (2) have them run away without the turn-and-fire, making them harder to track down and kill. We are trying for greater variety of reactions and certainly believe the animations were improveable over what we had last night.

Guild Wars had a few design issues concerning AI, and we've taken and will continue to take steps to correct that. The changes that we make may affect how you play, or perhaps even what you play. I wouldn't rush out to change every one of your characters because we're still making adjustments. And do be assured that we will be monitoring the changes to make sure that we don't change needlessly, and to make sure that what we do doesn't make a skill, or an entire skill line, useless. If a particular skill has been overly affected by the recent updates, we'll make amends by correcting that skill. If you have a case to state, state it on that: "This skill has suffered from the changes and should be improved and here’s what I’ve experienced." Not “Roll back the update,” or “I’m going to play some other game.” Help us with good analysis and with comments of a constructive nature. And watch for positive changes in the future.
__________________
Gaile Gray
Community Relations Manager
ArenaNet
www.guildwars.com

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

This is how:

Why the hell are you playing a game you hate, and why the hell should we who DON'T hate it care what you think, when all you want is for it to go away as quickly as possible?
Your idea of good PvE is a UAE button.

Originally Posted by Dametrus

Monsters get hit once or twice and scatter like chickens with their heads cut off.

Originally Posted by entropy

Btw PvE has just been nerfed thats what I was complaining about. Ranger spike is in some senses overpowered but nowadays the good teams can handle good ranger spike.

Originally Posted by calamitykell

From what I understand, they no longer run endless until they hit a wall. They'll move out of the AoE then continue with their AI, I believe.



And the good PvE'ers can handle the update.

Next!

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

(at entropy)

Because you should... It is a game. They are providing you with countless hours of entertainment for a very low price (if you've played as much as I do, then for $50 GW costs you like 20 cents an hour). They are not in your debt. You are in theirs. You haven't done anything for them. Accept it cause it is a game that you should be playing for fun.

Originally Posted by GWGuru

Peter McNeily had absolutely no chance at beating Mike Tyson but he still stepped into the ring and gave it a shot. Acting in a realistic way is completely different than giving up because you think you can't win. Being outnumbered doesn't mean you have to run....having brimstone and fire rained down upon you from the sky is a pretty valid reason to move out of the way...and even simplistic AI should follow at least basic natural animalistic instincts like moving out of the way of a fire shower. Any argument to the contrary simply exposes you for the weak mindless gameplay you enjoy.

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

(at entropy)

Because you should... It is a game. They are providing you with countless hours of entertainment for a very low price (if you've played as much as I do, then for $50 GW costs you like 20 cents an hour). They are not in your debt. You are in theirs. You haven't done anything for them. Accept it cause it is a game that you should be playing for fun.